Brad Wenstrup, chairman of the Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic, released Dr. Anthony Fauci’s transcript today, detailing his 14-hour testimony on COVID-19 policies and responses.
The interview transcript with Dr. Anthony Fauci was made public today by Brad Wenstrup, the chairman of the Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic (R-Ohio). During the COVID-19 epidemic, Dr. Fauci led the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and was the public face of the American public health response. His two-day, 14-hour closed-door testimony in January 2024 has been an essential part of the Select Subcommittee’s research into the causes of COVID-19, domestic policy mistakes made during the pandemic, and enhancements to the public health system in the United States. The Select Subcommittee also released a fresh staff paper outlining the main conclusions from Dr. Fauci’s transcribed interview and the transcript. The memo is given below (pdf below).
Important conversations from Dr. Fauci’s transcripted interview are listed below:
SOCIAL DISTANCING: Federal health experts’ “6 feet apart” social distancing recommendation was imposed on Americans without scientific basis and was arbitrary. In her testimony, Dr. Fauci said that this directive, which closed small businesses and schools across the country, “sort of just appeared” and was not supported by any research from scientific studies.
Majority Counsel: “Do you recall when discussions regarding, kind of, the at least a 6-foot threshold began?”
Dr. Fauci: “The 6 foot in the school?”
Majority Counsel: “Six foot overall. I mean, 6-foot was applied at businesses—”
Dr. Fauci: “Yeah.”
Majority Counsel: “—it was applied in schools, it was applied here. At least how the messaging was applied was that 6-foot distancing was the distance that needed to be—“
Dr. Fauci: “You know, I don’t recall. It sort of just appeared. I don’t recall, like, a discussion of whether it should be 5 or 6 or whatever. It was just that 6 foot is—”
Majority Counsel: “Did you see any studies that supported 6 feet?”
Dr. Fauci: “I was not aware of studies that in fact, would be a very difficult study to do.”
MASKING: In his testimony, Dr. Fauci stated that he could not think of any proof in favor of masking infants. It is concerning that youngsters in America who wear masks have been linked to serious speech development problems and learning impairments.
Majority Counsel: “Do you recall reviewing any studies or data supporting masking for children?”
Dr. Fauci: “You know, I might have, Mitch, but I don’t recall specifically that I did. I might have.”
Majority Counsel: “Since then — there’s been a lot of studies that have come out since the pandemic started, but specifically on this there have been significant on kinds of like the learning loss and speech and development issues that have been associated with particularly young children wearing masks while they’re growing up. They can’t see their teacher talk and can’t learn how to form words. Have you followed any of those studies?”
Dr. Fauci: “No. But I believe that there are a lot of conflicting studies too, that there are those that say, yes, there is an impact, and there are those that say there’s not. I still think that’s up in the air.”
TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS: During the height of the COVID-19 outbreak, Dr. Fauci wholeheartedly supported EVERY travel restriction that the Trump Administration imposed. The popular narrative that the travel restrictions imposed by the Trump Administration were xenophobic is contradicted by this testimony. Curiously, the attorneys for the Biden Administration did not allow Dr. Fauci to respond to inquiries about whether or not he had proposed the travel limits during the transcripted interview.
Majority Counsel: “Did you agree with President Trump’s decision to restrict travel from China?”
Dr. Fauci: “I did, and I said there were caveats to restrictions. I agreed with it, but I said we have to be careful because sometimes when you do restrictions they have negative consequences in that you don’t have open access to help or even information. But fundamentally, I agreed at that time, since we had almost no infections that we knew of in our country, that at least a temporary restriction would be important.”
Majority Counsel: “Did you also agree with the EU travel restriction?”
Dr. Fauci: “I agreed with the suggestion that that be done, yes.”
Majority Counsel: “Did you agree with the U.K. travel restriction?”
Dr. Fauci: “Yes, I did.”
…
Majority Counsel: “Did you recommend instituting travel restrictions in response to the pandemic?”
Biden Administration Official: “I’m going to step in here.”
VACCINE MANDATES: According to Dr. Fauci, vaccination restrictions imposed during the COVID-19 pandemic may lead to a future rise in vaccine reluctance. Additionally, he asserted that insufficient research was done on these mandates before to the pandemic. In the past, Dr. Fauci supported the idea that “people lose their ideological bullshit and get vaccinated when you make it difficult for them in their lives.”
Majority Counsel: “Do you think mandating vaccines can result in some hesitancy?”
Dr. Fauci: “I think one of the things that we really need to do after the fact, now, to — you know, after-the-game, after-the-event evaluation of things that need to be done, we really need to take a look at the psyche of the country, have maybe some social-type studies to figure out, does the mandating of vaccines in the way the country’s mental framework is right now, does that actually cause more people to not want to get vaccinated, or not? I don’t know. But I think that’s something we need to know.”
LAB LEAK THEORY: According to Dr. Fauci, there is no conspiracy behind the lab leak concept. This occurred almost four years after the now-famous “Proximal Origin” study, which sought to demonize and refute the lab leak theory, was published.
Majority Counsel: “Just you sitting here today, do you think the possibility or the hypothesis that the coronavirus emerged from a laboratory accident is a conspiracy theory?”
Dr. Fauci: “Well, it’s a possibility. I think people have made conspiracy aspects from it. And I think you have to separate the two when you keep an open mind, that it could be a lab leak or it could be a natural occurrence. I’ve mentioned in this committee that I believe the evidence that I’ve seen weighs my opinion towards one, which is a natural occurrence, but I still leave an open mind. So I think that in and of itself isn’t inherently a conspiracy theory, but some people spin off things from that that are kind of crazy.”
GAIN-OF-FUNCTION RESEARCH: To avoid admitting that the NIH financed this risky research in China, Dr. Fauci frequently played semantic games with the meaning of “gain-of-function” research. Being in charge of NIAID and representing the United States during the epidemic, Dr. Fauci was undoubtedly aware of the typical meaning of “gain-of-function.” However, he consistently declined to provide a clear definition of the phrase, both in private and in front of Sen. Rand Paul at a 2021 hearing; instead, he merely offered his own “operative definition.”
Dr. Fauci: “So, when I, to repeat, when I’m asked is something gain of function, I’m referring to the operative definition of gain of function according to the framework of the 3PCO…That’s my definition. That is the regulatory operational definition. And as we were talking about before, other people use the word “gain of function” this, “gain of function” that, and everybody’s got their own interpretation of it. But when you’re deciding whether a grant should be funded, this is the operational definition. And when I was asked anywhere by the Congress, by the Senate, by Senator Paul this is what I was referring to.”
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST: Although Dr. Fauci stated that his team had no conflicts of interest concerning the COVID-19 virus’s beginnings, his Senior Advisor, Dr. David Morens, was “best friends” with Dr. Peter Daszak, the president of the EcoHealth Alliance, who was soon to be barred. It is improbable that Dr. Fauci was truly unaware of this relationship, given that Dr. Morens was under his supervision for more than 20 years.
Majority Counsel: “I was wondering if you had thoughts on whether Dr. Daszak should have filed competing interest statements when he was weighing in on these issues, whether through the National Academies or other venues.”
Dr. Fauci: “You know, I hesitate to speculate about what someone else should do. The only people that I am involved with is my own staff, who we’ve mentioned many times in this discussion, who don’t have a conflict of interest.”
GRANT APPROVAL: According to Dr. Fauci’s testimony, he approved all NIAID grants, both domestic and foreign, without carefully examining the grant submissions. Furthermore, he was unable to verify whether NIAID has ANY systems in place to monitor the overseas laboratories they support. Adversaries have opportunities to take advantage of NIAID’s defective award process, which mostly depends on trusting its grantees without doing any verification.
Majority Counsel: “Who gives the final approval?”
Dr. Fauci: “You know, technically, I sign off on each council, but I don’t see the grants and what they are. I never look at what grants are there. It’s just somebody at the end of the council where they’re all finished and they go, ‘Here,’ and you sign it.”
…
Majority Counsel: “Okay. So to your knowledge, NIAID wouldn’t kind of independently verify the biosafety of a foreign lab?”
Dr. Fauci: “Again, I’d have to say I’m not sure. To my knowledge, I wouldn’t be able to make a statement that I would be confident it would be.”
…
Majority Counsel: “Do you know if NIAID grants go through any type of national security review as part of the process?”
Dr. Fauci: “National security review?”
Majority Counsel: “So, like, through the National Security Council or—“
Dr. Fauci: “No.”
Majority Counsel: “—or anyone in the [intelligence community]—“
Dr. Fauci: “Not to my knowledge.”
…
Majority Counsel: “I guess what we’re trying to learn going forward is, obviously, U.S. labs are vetted, certified, and there’s a standard of how U.S. labs operate. Are foreign labs held to the same standard as U.S. labs when they receive U.S. money, or are they the standards of the country in which they operate?”
Dr. Fauci: “I am not certain. I have heard again, I think it was subsequent to, of course, that was never brought up.”
Majority Counsel: “Uh huh.”
Dr. Fauci: “When I was the director, no one ever asked me, you know, who determines, you know, what the standards of a foreign lab are. But so the answer to your question is I don’t know, okay?”
FEIGNED IGNORANCE: Dr. Fauci stated over 100 times that he “did not recall” several problems and occurrences related to the epidemic. In particular, Dr. Fauci stated that neither he nor its President, Dr. Peter Daszak, were aware of the grant’s specifics, even though EcoHealth Alliance was carrying out dangerous gain-of-function research in China.
Majority Counsel: “Do you recall when you first found out that the year 5 progress report was missing from the EcoHealth grant?”
Dr. Fauci: “I don’t recall precisely. It was somewhere on a briefing that the staff gave to me. I don’t know exactly when that was. It could have been later. I don’t know.”
Majority Counsel: “Okay. Do you think, just to the best of your recollection, whether it was before you were aware that the year 5 progress report was late before May 2021 or it would have been after?”
Dr. Fauci: “I don’t recall.”
Recently, GreatGameIndia reported that during an interview with the House Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic, Fauci admitted he made up COVID guidelines based on mere assumptions, not science.
Read the memo given below:
FINAL_Fauci-Memo